Stumbling Through Work
Working in education is to stumble through your everyday! We love what we do, but staff, families, policies, regulations and sometimes even the children make us quit everyday then come back the next day. Just remember, you are not in this alone.
Stumbling Through Work
School Threat: Unchecked Teacher Behavior and When to Let them Go
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Unchecked teacher behavior? We critique the responses of those involved and emphasize the importance of confronting problematic behavior head-on, ensuring a safe and nurturing space for young learners.
Reflecting on the unchecked teacher behavior story, we discuss the headaches of firing underperforming employees and the ripple effects it can have on a school's reputation. Join us for practical strategies and insights that aim to shape a brighter future in early childhood education.
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Educator Tale
Speaker 1Welcome to Stumbling Through Work where educators figure shit out . I'm your host , jarek Huff , and I'm here to explore and share the complexities of our work and let you know you are not alone . Before we start , though , please follow this podcast and share episodes with others . You can find me on my website , wwwjerekhuffcom , where you can find links to my social media and where I share information and tips for educators . Now let's jump into today's episode . Hey , team , welcome to another episode of Stumbling Through Work where educators figure shit out .
Speaker 1I came across this article , or more of like a blog post , from this lady who has been in the field for 15 years and she has decided to bow out . She is no longer with us as an educator and she has moved on . She kind of wrote this long op-ed kind of thing her exit speech , I guess of her experience , of the good and the bad and the things that she's experienced through her tenure . As I was reading it , I said you know what ? I want to share this with my team , because there were a few interesting moments in here , and this is one . This section of that long speech is called Preschool . Teachers Are Hard to Recruit and Retain and Hard to Fire , even If they're Terrible .
Speaker 1A teacher at one of the schools where I worked early on was known as Scary Mary . This is what the four-year-olds called her as they clustered in the corners of the playground . This is what the four-year-olds called her as they clustered in the corners of the playground . She was short , with a black bob and she smiled ear to ear at the parents Like a Disney villain . As soon as she was alone in her classroom with the kids , her voice changed from a high chirp to a bark . She maintained a glossy red manicure and she snapped her fingers while yelling at the kids . She often reacted to misbehavior with pointed , cruel remarks . An assistant teacher who worked with Scary Mary seemed completely terrified of her . She barely spoke Once I walked by Scary Mary's open door and saw her pull a child out of his seat .
Speaker 1A blonde boy who was prone to nose picking and daydreaming had once again let his lunch sit uneaten . While he talked and giggled , scary Mary yanked him out of his seat hard enough that his knees hit the underside of the table and wagged her finger in his face . You are a bad boy , she said . Do you want your mom and dad to cry because you don't eat ? You want to be skinny and small like a girl . I went on my lunch break and made a complaint with the director . She nodded seriously and assured me she would talk to Mary . A few weeks later I saw Scary Mary grab another child by the belt loop . He cried as she leaned over him . All I could see was the small hump of her bent back and the rounded curve of his dimpled elbow sticking out . I cried in the hallway bathroom .
Speaker 1I knew that Scary Mary was damaging the children she taught . I knew that scaring Mary was damaging the children she taught . I also knew that our director was going to try everything in her power to make Mary work out before she would even consider firing her . Firing an employee makes tongues wag , parents talk to each other and it can make the school look unstable to have turnover . In addition , finding a reliable teacher with enough early childhood development units to teach a class , one who would work the required hours and who interviewed even fairly well , was very difficult .
Speaker 1I just want to say that as I was reading that , I felt like I was starting to read a story to my children . I found myself about to get into character , because the way that she wrote this felt very story-ish . So if you noticed the voice was changing , I caught myself before I actually went there . But after reading this , you know there . But after reading this , you know I could tell you about 15 things that this author could have done other than cry in the hallway bathroom like girl , get it together . You need to be , you know , advocating for these children . You need to not just be sitting there crying . I'm like that's not helping anybody . If you were , as you said , that scary mary was damaging the children , what were you doing crying in the bathroom ? But I do believe that she had a point . Teachers are hard to recruit and return and retain sometimes and they are hard to fire sometimes . But let's back up all the way to the beginning of this story . The fact that we're calling Mary Scary Mary let's just stay in that avenue for a second Was the author ?
Speaker 1Was she the only one that heard the children refer to her as scary mary ? Because I am sure that another adult heard them say oh , scary mary , pause , let's talk about how funny children are , because they just say things that are just hilarious sometimes . But if you were the only person that heard scary mary , I'm sorry . I just can't move past it . No , you weren't . You were not the only person that heard Scary Mary . I'm sorry , I just can't move past it . No , you weren't . You were not the only person that heard that . I'm sorry , you're not going to sit here and make it sound . I'm sorry You're not the only person that heard that . And because I know that you're not the only person that heard that , I'm questioning now why this was not a red flag to anyone else , like , oh , the kids calling Scary Mary , they have fun names for teachers . Nah , something ain't right with that . Someone seen the red flags ? I'm sorry . Someone seen those flags and said this is a carnival , this is six flags and we about to get on this Ferris wheel and we gonna ride this slide all the way down to the ground . Somebody said that because y'all allowed this to continue and if the children are calling her Scary Mary , trust and believe somebody's mama , daddy , uncle , cousin , brother , grandma , nana , somebody is calling this other woman Scary Mary at home too . So let's just be honest about that . So this situation went on for a while . Let's just put that out there . Somebody did that .
Speaker 1But also let's talk about the author because , like I said , as I was reading it , it was . It felt like a story . So it became a little difficult for me to kind of hone in on the seriousness of it , because I mean , she describes the black bob , her red nails . I mean I was seeing cruella deville as soon as I'm reading this and it felt a little she , her , she was hyperbolizing some and it's almost one of those girl because you , you serving me a lot . So I don't know if I can truly follow what you're saying , but I do know that you're not making it up , but you , you're giving a little bit , you're giving a little too much .
Speaker 1But let's go back to the line where she says um , you're a bad boy , you want to be skinny and small like a girl . Let's just let that sit for a second . I'm gonna read it again . You are a bad boy , you want to be skinny and small like a girl . Y'all we know how these kids be having these clapbacks . What if that little boy turned around and looked at her face and said , and I do , what would she have done ? You know , these kids be on it Y'all . She would have said that I would have died .
Speaker 1But you know , even though you don't want to eat , I mean , let's be honest he probably didn't want to eat . That boy was looking at that food and was wondering why y'all was serving him these dry-ass chicken nuggets and them unseasoned carrots . I mean I wouldn't want to eat it either , so you can't be mad out of a shoot . I mean , they're little people , they have taste buds too and they know when something is not seasoned . The boy was like why does it taste like porridge ? But I mean all of that problematic . It was out of line and I'm sorry I call people out , I call shit out when I see it .
Speaker 1At that moment , even if it might not have been the moment because there were children around , I would have definitely pulled old scary Mary Berry to the side and been like , hey , I heard you say so-and-so , I heard you say this . I want you to know that that's definitely not okay . That's not where we're at in this field . And my thing is she would have had a problem . That sounds like a problem for her , because it's not my responsibility to manage other people's emotions and feelings , so she just would have been okay with it . But what I really don't understand is how did she get away with this ? And no one truly really reported it . I mean , she said she told her director . But we're at the point where you're grabbing up children , where you're pulling them , where you're yanking them , and no parent has , you know , gone forward and said I'm having an issue to their licensing to somebody . We just we're just letting this go . We're just letting scary mary just spook the building . That's just where we're at . She's just going around going boo to everybody and we're finding that acceptable .
Speaker 1I guess it happens a lot . I can't say that it does , because it's not my personality , that's not my um , something that I would allow to happen in my school . I'm trying to even think about when I was a teacher . I mean I've heard children say people were mean . But I guess when children say so-and-so's mean , you know you always got to look at the reason why they're mean . Is it because they're having a routine ? I mean , when I was a teacher I never seen flat out disrespect . I've seen a little sternness , but not to that level . So but y'all just letting Scary Mary spook the building building .
Speaker 1But I think we all have had experiences with teachers that weren't the best , that were not the most loving , that were kind of two-faced , where they're always great for the parents and they're oh , everything is great , how are you ? This is going super well . And then as soon as that door closes , they turn into somebody else . Now I think we've all experienced that . I can be honest I've done that a little bit . I mean , um , not to like a terrible point , but you know , I'm like hey , good morning , and I can turn around looking kids like okay , y'all , we ain't here , we ain't doing this today . Not today , I mean , we all kind of do that , but to the point to where it's disrespectful or negative to a child never . That's just kind of where I'm at .
Speaker 1Why nobody reported this woman and y'all just act like this whole behavior was fine . But I mean we never got any more follow-up about Scary Mary . Was she still doing the same things ? What was the follow-up ? That was kind of the end of it . So I still have more questions . But I thought I would just read and share with my team . So there you guys go and on that note we'll be right back .
Speaker 1We all want our schools or programs to be the best and although every school is different , all successful programs have the same fundamentals . Best Practices for High-Quality Preschool , afterschool and Enrichment Programs by Jarek Huff share standards to foster a high-quality program . These tips will help you put your best service forward , focusing on your children , families and communities . Best Practices for High-Quality Preschool , afterschool and Enrichment Programs by Jared Huff is available on Amazon and Amazon Kindle . Welcome back .
Staff Management Challenges in Education
Speaker 1We just got done speaking about Scary Mary and I really thought about it more because I think that story resonated with me , because I'm kind of going through something right now , throughout this week , and I'm going to reread what she said where it was firing an employee makes tongues wag , parents talk to each other and it can make the school look unstable to have turnover . In addition , finding a reliable teacher with enough early childhood development units to teach a class , one who will work the hours needed and who interview even fairly well , was very difficult and it is . But you know , my mentality is you gots to go and I'm finding myself trying to have this conversation with some of my staff because I get it . It's frustrating . You know , hiring new people , going through the process of training them , then you're trying to coach them , you're trying to mentor them and they keep messing up .
Speaker 1Let me tell you what Maya Angelou said when someone shows you who they are , believe them . If I have a conversation with you and you do the opposite . I'm moving on . I'm sorry because that says to me that is blatant disrespect and I'm I'm not holding on to bad people . At the end of the day I'm not .
Speaker 1I am known as a director for cleaning house real quick because I get rid of it . I'd rather struggle and it's happened to me before where I've gotten rid of and lost a whole bunch of teachers at one time and I would struggle to have better people and a better climate and culture within the building than have a bunch of bodies that are around doing things that I have to clean up and I get it . You know , parents do talk because parents first reply is oh , it just seems like everybody's just leaving and everybody comes back and my rebuttal usually is yes , they are no longer a fit for where we're moving towards in our school , for the betterment of our children . Is it me ?
Speaker 1But does it seem like families , parents , adults always love the worst teachers that you have ? Like ? They always find it like oh my gosh , I love so-and-so . And she's no longer here . She was so great , she was such an amazing teacher and I'm sitting here thinking like girl , if you know what she did in that classroom , you wouldn't think she was amazing . Oh , and she just always had great conversation with me when I picked up , and that's the issue she too , busy flapping her gums with you , then watching the kids . That's why you liked her . That's why her ass is gone now , for that exact reason . But it's like they always love the worst teachers . It drives me bananas and because I'm professional , I can't say why I let them go . But I wanted to be like you know they was in here throwing rice at your child . I just made that up . But you know families love the worst teacher , so and but you know parents do talk and it the turnover rate can get ridiculous . It's already high in our field anyway .
Speaker 1But then , as you're like trying to find a good place , when you're going through people , it's's just another person , it's another change , and then we're looking at the impact that it does to our children , and I understand that , that we want to have the routine , we want to have the same faces , we want to go through an entire month and be able to say we retained everybody . I get it , y'all I do . But when you have someone that is not on your team and that is actually giving you more work , let them go . I don't care what other problems it causes . Let them go . I don't care how many degrees you got , I don't care if you're a team player , I don't care if you work a nine to five and you come in and you work a six to ten . I don't care If you are not the right fit , you are just not the right fit Period . There are people that interview . Well , they know all the things to say . We had a hired . Well , I didn't hire .
Speaker 1One of my directors hired this teacher once and she was the absolute worst . She was trash , just trash box . And I looked at her because I I met her and I was like I just don't like her . So I went through her file , I looked at her interview sheet and all her answers were spot on , like spot on , the perfect answer . I had to fire her ass because she was eating the kids . Let me tell y'all . One of the other teachers came and told me they said Mr Jerry . I said yes , she says um , so you know teacher's name . She ain't eating the kids food . I said what do you mean ? Well , we supply our food for our children . You know we , our children . You know we do , you know all their meals . She's like , oh , she'll keep extra food and put it on the side for her . So she says she hungry , later she'll have food . No , uh-uh , not doing this horrible teacher . The director tried to keep her . I was like , nah , we're not doing . No , no , no , no , we're not doing this .
Speaker 1And I've noticed sometimes people will hold on to bad habits , they will hold on to bad teachers , they will hold on to bad things just to say they have a body in the room . And there's nothing worse than a desperate hire . There's nothing worse than a hire that needs to go . Trust me when I say let them go if that teacher is not making your job easier , if your staff member is not making your job easier , because that , in reality , is what should be happening . When you hire someone , they should be making your job easier , but if they're making your job more difficult , if you're finding yourself having to clean up after them , it is time to let them go . Goodbye , it is time to let them go . Goodbye . Move on , martha .
Speaker 1And I guess when I read the Scary Mary piece , it stuck with me because I'm trying to have this conversation with my staff and letting people go and stop just making excuses for people . If they're trash , let them go . It is what it is . Once again , I understand face value . We want to save on face . They just came in parents like where'd they go ? But if you have a true and honest conversation with your families , unfortunately they did not mesh well with our team and you know the way that our company is , the way that our school is , and we really want to find the perfect fit . So we just ask that you bear with us through the process . They will actually be understanding . It's just when you change and don't say shit to them is when they usually get pissed . But let people go . You guys let them go and I really want my staff to be able to start learning . To do that is to let them go and stop giving people 47,000 chances . Just let it go . But you know , if you know someone that needs to hear this conversation , someone that is struggling with letting people go , someone that is scared to let someone go and holding on to bad behaviors , please send them this episode . Please let them hear this that they need to just let people go so they can move forward and we'll be right back .
Speaker 1I love sharing information with educators and program administrators . I have had so many successes , but also so many failures in my education tenure . I want leaders to know what not to do , but better than that , what to do . So I decided to write a helpful guide Best Practices for Center Program and Activity Directors . It's short and to the point . It's a compass to guide education leaders . These best practices will give you a foundation to lead your school program or organization . You can find best practices for center program and activity directors by Jared Cuff on Amazon or Amazon Kindle . We are back and it is time for Reddit and I'm going to read this to you all .
Speaker 1A letter to parents . I am tired of teaching your kids empathy when you turn around and tell them it doesn't matter . I'm tired of teaching your kids manners when you tell them please and thank you are a waste . I'm tired of teaching your kids respect when you show none to anyone , when you swear that they can't lift a finger because they're allergic to doing something on their own . I've worked in child care for 14 , almost 15 years . I am burned out , I am worn out . I take pride in my job . Not only am I teaching your kids ABCs and 123s , I'm teaching them how to be a human being . I'm teaching them . When a friend falls , we don't laugh . We help them up and ask them if they're okay . I'm teaching them it's okay to be mad or sad or a mixture of everything , and I'm teaching them healthy ways to express these feelings . I'm teaching them just because you don't win or wasn't first doesn't mean you failed . But year after year , parents are getting worse .
Speaker 1An excuse for every behavior it's always the fault of the teachers , the fault of the children in the classroom , the fault of the effing air movement , never the fault of the child or the parent . These are the children of the future . Son , when little Johnny beat someone up because he wanted to talk first , what are you going to tell the police ? Well , it's okay , because Johnny just needed 20 minutes to breathe and the victim should have known that . When you're teaching little Susie , she can't get away with blaming others for what she did . How well do you think that's going to go over in the future ? I can hear so many now . Oh , my god , get over it . They are just little kids . You're making a big deal over nothing . Well , maybe you should try harder , but to me it is a big deal .
Speaker 1I do not expect your 3 and 4 year olds to be perfect . I do not expect them to act like they work excuse me . I do not expect them to act like they work a full-time job and pay taxes . I just want to make their learning experience fun and meaningful . I want to send them off to pre-k , to further on more , with not only book smarts but with a bit of common sense and the ability to help out our friends sincerely , sincerely .
Speaker 1A very tired , burned out teacher who fears the future . She is mad , and let me tell you how mad she is . She's so damn mad that she misspelled the word sincerely . But I'm going to keep moving forward . Look , somebody done pissed her off . Somebody's mama done pissed this woman off . I don't know who it was , but she mad and she over it for the day , although she does have a point , because we are as educators . We are supposed to partner together . We are supposed to be in this . You have one part of it , I have another , and we come together . Now I'm going to be honest . I didn't birth these children . I can't write them off on my taxes . They're not mine . At the end of the day , they are not mine . I may have stewardship over them for a moment , but they are not mine and somewhere along the way some families have forgotten that , that teachers are teachers and they're not . Teachers are not , you know , social workers , therapists . They're not counselors , they're not medical professionals , they're not astronauts , they're just teachers . But with that being said , I do say that families always look at us in two different ways . They're always going to look at us in two ways One is as a partner and the other is as a professional . One is as a partner and the other is as a professional .
Building Strong Parent-Educator Partnerships
Speaker 1I read this once years ago and it stuck with me and I believe everything that that article said . It said that parents that are typically higher socioeconomic parents , they have a way of wanting to partner with their children's teachers . They have a way of being very boisterous . They have a way of wanting to be a part of the process . They have a way of speaking up . They have a way of challenging you and there's nothing wrong with it . I think that's really good because I can say these parents early in my career forced me to be better because some of them they come hard . They come hard at you like nah . You're going to explain to me why this is right and me , as a parent I am , I can be a little difficult with my child's teachers . I definitely will say that I'm known in these streets to be a little difficult . So I get that , you know . And that's healthy , because it's about us coming together For the betterment of the child .
Speaker 1But then the other way that the article was saying , that I was reading , said that Some parents look at us as professionals and those tend to be lower socioeconomic families where they come to us for advice . They come to us on how to show them how to do something with their child . They come to us and ask for best practices . They're going to come to us because we are the professional and we are supposed to know this , which also pushed me to be better , to be a better educator . Because if I don't know my stuff , if I don't know what I'm supposed to know , how can these families come to me for advice ? How can I show them what we're doing in the classroom ? How can I show them , hey , try this at home . How can I give them this information if I'm not better ? So both ways actually create better teachers , better educators , because someone is trying you on one side and on the other one someone is relying on you on the other and I think both ways are healthy .
Speaker 1But old girl , she pissed , she mad for real , real , as I go through the entire thing . What I really do love is how she talks about social and emotional learning . This is my philosophy . But I feel that a lot of these school shooters , um , a lot of these people that are , you know , trigger happy . They have these issues . They did not go to preschool and if they did , they did not learn about social and emotional learning , because they are unstable . They do not know how to process their feelings . They don't know how to process their emotions . They're socially awkward . All of these things that you learn in preschool are the things that they're lacking and they grow up and this is what happens . So what we do is amazing . It really , really is , and I loved how she speaks to that .
Speaker 1But you know , through her rant , what she's trying to say is that we can't do this ourselves and we need families to be with us . That don't mean you drop off and go and you know , and then you pick up and you run on your way out . We have to do this together . We have to kind of tag team this , because families have a fund of knowledge on their children . You know I don't think families realize that their children or , excuse me , I don't think they realize that they're the first teachers of their children , not us we come in later Families are the first teachers of their children and whether they see us as a partner or professional , we do need each other for balance .
Professional Ethos and Boundaries
Speaker 1That's it today . I want you all to have an amazing week as usual , and remember , if someone is not making your job easier but more difficult , it is time to let them go . Stop holding on to bad people and remember people are looking at you in two ways one as a professional and another as a partner . And other than that , I'll see you all next week . That's it for today . If you like this episode , it would mean so much to me if you left a rating review and subscribe to the show . I'd love to hear from you . You can visit my website , which is in the show notes , to contact me , and I hope you have a great rest of your week and speak to you all soon . You , you .
